Ep. 6 – The FemTech Social Media Playbook

Karen (00:19)
We're thrilled to welcome today's guest, Dr. Anjali Malik, a breast imaging radiologist, a women's health advocate, and one of the clearest, most trusted clinician voices on social media today. She's built a dedicated following by translating medical knowledge into accessible, relatable education, and doing it with warmth, candor, and zero judgment.

Gabrielle Svenning (00:41)
She's part clinician, part educator, part myth buster. And her rising online presence is really becoming a digital blueprint for other healthcare providers who are learning to navigate and lead in the online space with integrity.

Karen (00:56)
Anjali welcome to the bar.

ANJALI MALIK, MD (00:58)
Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Karen (01:00)
Ha!

Gabrielle Svenning (01:01)
know, before we even jump in, I would love to just get a sense of, you you are really a pioneer in this space among healthcare providers. There aren't a lot of you out there. Can you explain a little bit how you first got interested in having an online presence? What prompted it? Was there a moment in time? Did it happen just kind of slowly? Was it intentional? We'd love to hear that journey.

ANJALI MALIK, MD (01:24)
Yeah, sure. I'm a breast imaging radiologist, which is so much public facing, public health policy. And I have a public health background from my BA at Hopkins where I worked a lot on health policy, but also advocacy. And did a lot of that when I was in medical school as well. So advocacy and social media, do, especially in this day and age, go hand in hand.

So when I first went into private practices, when I dabbled into the online advocacy, I had done some when I did my fellowship in DC, whether it's like the community outreach or reacting to the flawed USPSTF, the United States Preventative Services Task Force guidelines. ⁓ I think that's definitely a time when a lot of breast imaging radiologists felt like they had to take to whatever it was, whether it was standard mainstream media.

Karen (02:06)
Yes.

ANJALI MALIK, MD (02:14)
digital media, print media.

We felt like we really needed to get our voices out there and that was certainly a galvanizing moment for me. And then each step came from there. So it was first Twitter, now X, ⁓ where I felt like I was definitely reaching a professional community. I have so many professional connections that I established through there. Other members of national organizations who I've now become close to because of that. But where I really felt like I was doing the most public outreach ⁓ was when I joined the Instagram.

online medical community. And that's where I've really had the largest presence, the most impact. And I've taken it from there, TikTok, LinkedIn, et cetera. But I feel like Instagram sort of is that home and hopefully soon on YouTube.

Karen (02:59)
Yeah.

Gabrielle Svenning (02:59)
That's really great and we're gonna get

into all the different platforms too as part of this conversation. But having some context was really, is helpful.

ANJALI MALIK, MD (03:03)
Mm-hmm.

Karen (03:08)
And of course, love YouTube since, know, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I spend a lot of time on YouTube and I don't know if it's my demographic, but I actually think, I feel like younger people are spending more time on YouTube lately than they used to, so I think it's great. Yeah.

ANJALI MALIK, MD (03:14)
Yeah.

I think it waxes and wanes. think every

platform has its pros and cons and has its moment. So it depends on what you're looking for. Do you want the long format recipe? Do you want a longer conversation? Do you want the quick hit? all of them have their pros and cons and all of them have medical misinformation too, which is another reason why it's so important to me and for other providers to be online.

Karen (03:27)
Yeah.

Right.

Well, and actually that leads right into our first question, which is kind of a follow up on your own intro. In your roles, both as an influencer and ⁓ an imaging radiologist, how do you see today's opportunity and responsibility for clinicians to show up on social media generally, even beyond yourself?

ANJALI MALIK, MD (04:06)
Yeah, no. So I think, you know, we have to meet people where they are at. And I think obviously the exam room is a place to have a one on one interaction and it has so much impact on an individual's life. But because we are fighting misinformation, we are fighting even getting people into our exam rooms. Some of that being barriers to entry on their own, whether it's access, whether it's, you know,

mistrust of the medical system and then of course insurance doesn't help anything these days and so we want to meet people where they're at tell them the kinds of you know things that we want them to know that are important in how they get their health information and how they get their health care and then how they take care of themselves so I think it's incredibly important for those in the medical space to to be online sharing that information and also trying to drown out the noise of all the other people

who are trying to sell misinformation. And I say sell very purposefully because most of the medical providers, credentialed medical providers who are online are providing information, but there are those who benefit from the misinformation by selling snake oils and supplements and alternatives that not only will they not help, but they can hurt.

Karen (05:01)
Yes.

Yeah.

Gabrielle Svenning (05:22)
Before we get into what I really am interested in is what you were talking about earlier is how to figure out which platform you're going to go on, which platform is best for your content. I want to step back for just a second to talk about language because you brought something up You said provider. I noticed, do you call yourself an influencer or is it more...

Karen (05:22)
Okay.

Gabrielle Svenning (05:43)
you know, information provider or an advocate. You know, I'm curious because influencer can mean a lot of things and lately it's been more about someone who isn't necessarily credible but is out there with sway. have you come across that?

ANJALI MALIK, MD (05:50)
Yeah.

Yeah, no, absolutely. And so that's the thing is, you know, am I an influencer in the classic sense? So in the, know, buy this product and here's my discount code. No. Have I shared some things with a discount code, by the way? Yes. And those are very like, you know, I'm very discriminant about that. It either is something good for your health or, you know, aligns with my mission.

Gabrielle Svenning (06:07)
Yeah.

ANJALI MALIK, MD (06:18)
But I am not someone who is hawking product. I am sharing information. And so the first time I was called an influencer, was like, no, mm-mm, that's not what I am. I am just online, a doctor on social media. And the person was like, no, you're literally an influencer and your influence is just on people's health. So yes, I guess in the most accurate...

Gabrielle Svenning (06:27)
Yeah.

Karen (06:34)
Hahaha

ANJALI MALIK, MD (06:40)
definition of influencer? Do I provide information in hopes of influencing people? Yes. But am I, you know, looking to have a million followers just so I, you know, like links get clicked? Like, no, yeah. So, yeah, I mean, I think, I think it's, there is a difference. I think there are also medical

Gabrielle Svenning (06:52)
clout as the kids say. Yeah, yeah.

Karen (06:54)
Yeah.

ANJALI MALIK, MD (07:02)
providers and healthcare professionals online who walk the line between the two, who do provide some medical information and then do certainly monetize their presence. And I think if it's done thoughtfully and mindfully, that can be fine. And again, it's like something that I feel like I've tried to walk that line, ⁓ but in a much smaller scale. I think it's important not to get caught up in promoting things that we just don't have evidence behind.

Karen (07:20)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. And I would think that, sorry, I was just gonna say, I would think that some areas of being a medical provider kind of lend itself more to that than others. For instance, dermatology. You see a lot of really good dermatologists online who also, eventually they'll make a line of skin care, but there's usually a lot of good.

Gabrielle Svenning (07:29)
Yep. Well, I was, yeah. No, could pivot, yeah.

ANJALI MALIK, MD (07:50)
Right. Right.

Karen (07:54)
clinical evidence behind it, you know, and all that stuff. So, yeah.

ANJALI MALIK, MD (07:57)
Yeah, absolutely. And,

know, I'd rather that than a celebrity skin line, right? I mean, or maybe the celeb pairs with their celebrity dermatologist, whatever, right? But you do want credentials behind it. I get asked all the time by companies to promote their products because they want to lean on my credentials, right? They want, you know, Anjali Malik MD thinks that this supplement is great. And I'm like, absolutely not. Like, I I stopped responding a long time ago to those types of requests. But, you know,

Karen (08:01)
Yeah, yeah, right, right.

Gabrielle Svenning (08:02)
Go.

Karen (08:05)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Gabrielle Svenning (08:16)
Right. Yes.

Karen (08:21)
Yeah.

Okay.

ANJALI MALIK, MD (08:26)
Women's health is already such a murky space. I hate that it's something that's so heavily exploited. Of course, the menopause mafia out there now, you know, we're taking full advantage of millennial women who are going into perimenopause and menopause. And it's really frustrating to see how, you know, our own fears, not only are they often fear mongered, but then again, exploited for monetization.

Gabrielle Svenning (08:35)
Yes.

Yeah.

Karen (08:51)
Yeah.

And it's a double, it's another kind of, it's another level of exploitation. were talking with somebody else about how some, so I, I'm older than that, you know, and the fact that there was really no conversations going on, it almost feels now like, thank God we're talking about it, which is true. But that also opens up, you know, a whole, there's another door that gets opened up with that, you know.

ANJALI MALIK, MD (09:09)
Yeah

Yeah,

you know, it's interesting because I thought peri-menopause,

to me, again, maybe because I'm getting older or whatever, but I really heard people talking about it more like five years ago during the pandemic, Dr. Mary Claire Haver, Dr. Jen Gunter, were people, she wrote Menopause Manifesto, there were people who were really bringing that conversation into focus. And as a woman and as a woman's health provider, I was so excited to see it. And then all of a sudden I was like, everyone on here is a menopause expert.

Karen (09:43)
Yeah,

yeah, right.

Gabrielle Svenning (09:43)
Yeah.

Yeah.

ANJALI MALIK, MD (09:45)
And that's not to say that it's not true, but it is, you do have to pause and say, does everyone need to balance their hormones and take this supplement? mean, you just start having to question people's intentions and who really is the voice of clarity.

Gabrielle Svenning (10:00)
That actually ⁓ is good segue into the next question, which is really how do you make the choices that you do about your content and where you're going to go? know, every platform has a different sort of flair personality and hook. Instagram, obviously very visually driven and, know, I'm not going to go into all the differences between them, but as a creator clinician, how do those differences shape

ANJALI MALIK, MD (10:03)
Thank

Gabrielle Svenning (10:25)
where you show up and how you show up. I know you mentioned you've got LinkedIn and Instagram. You're hoping you're going to move over to YouTube you mentioned. Did you say are you on Yeah, okay, How do you know do you come up with the idea first and then think about the platform or are you thinking about a platform and then say something and try to repurpose it? It can seem so daunting to choose. Where do you begin?

ANJALI MALIK, MD (10:35)
I

Right, no, absolutely. I mean, I think, for example, you know, the off the cuff TikToks are what...

even motivated reels to be a thing on Instagram. But prior to reels being a thing, the off the cuff or the videos or whatever were a TikTok item. And Instagram was like the still pictures or the slides of pictures or the slides of slides, if you will. Now that content is a little bit more equivalent. If I am doing a still post on Instagram, it's not going to make it over to TikTok or if does, it's going to be like a slide.

So it really just depends on how I'm delivering that information. I've definitely had people comment how organic the content might feel when you're just talking into the camera or into your phone, like in the car or at my desk. And I was like, honestly, because again, I'm not a true influencer, right? I don't have the three point light set up 99 % of the time. am like, it's actually like very poorly lit. I probably don't have makeup on.

Gabrielle Svenning (11:34)
Yeah.

state.

Karen (11:44)
Ha ha ha.

haha

ANJALI MALIK, MD (11:50)
So, again, what I think is the opposite of an influencer. And yeah, the content is organic because this is what I want to share, or this is a question I've gotten from my own patients or from my followers, and I want to address it right now when I have a few seconds. Or sometimes you're hopping on a trend where you think, I could apply this to breast imaging.

Gabrielle Svenning (11:51)
Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Karen (12:09)
Yeah.

ANJALI MALIK, MD (12:11)
Obviously for a while when Taylor Swift went to any of the Chiefs games it was a moment for like how do you use the memes? know for like How do you apply the memes so yeah, so that's a lot of that LinkedIn ⁓ I feel like is you know obviously more professional environment. I'm not doing as much information sharing so much as

Gabrielle Svenning (12:18)
Mm-hmm, yeah. Yeah.

Karen (12:18)
Right, right, right, right, yeah.

ANJALI MALIK, MD (12:31)
sort of world sharing, like if there was like a conference that I attended or like connections that were made or things like that. So that's a little bit of, would say a different, ⁓ spin for me there. ⁓ and even like when I was on Twitter, it used to be more about professional connections. I guess it's some people like to do inflammatory type things on those, like, you know, threads or whatever, like they want to put posts to like, you know, what, what's going to get the most comments and engagement. And if I post.

Gabrielle Svenning (12:35)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah.

ANJALI MALIK, MD (12:58)
something that makes people angry and like gets people riled up. ⁓ I don't tend to do that kind of content, but I do think it's meaningful. Like, you know, if we just want to talk about how bad health insurance is or something like that, I do think that kind of content is meaningful. I don't have the bandwidth to respond to all the comments.

Gabrielle Svenning (13:08)
Yeah.

Karen (13:09)
Yeah.

Gabrielle Svenning (13:13)
Right. Yeah.

Karen (13:14)
that's

true. That's something people need to keep mind, you know, as they're thinking about what type of content to put on different platforms and things is the response, you know, because that's obviously really important. Yeah.

Gabrielle Svenning (13:17)
Yeah.

ANJALI MALIK, MD (13:21)
Yeah, Absolutely. And so,

you know, I'm always happy to provide more context or information, but in general, I try to make my post as transparent and clear as possible so that there aren't attentive follow-up questions. Because yeah, I know that my bandwidth is limited.

Karen (13:43)
Yeah. So, no, that's cool.

Gabrielle Svenning (13:44)
I'm kind of going off script, sorry for Karen for a second, but I'm just so fascinated

because I'm curious, how much time does this take you? Do you find it kind of, it's intense to like keep up with all of these different socials. You're an individual, you know, I think as we think about our listeners, many are.

marketers, know, founders working in FemTech companies who may either be doing, you know, working with people like you, but I'm curious, it's important for them to know too, what is the sort of time commitment and a little bit how much labor goes into all of this, because on one hand I do hear you can sort of pick up the phone and make some content, but that's just maybe a portion, a fraction of the type of content. You've got others, and also when you do partnerships that require more time.

Karen (14:15)
Yeah.

ANJALI MALIK, MD (14:27)
Yeah. Yeah.

Gabrielle Svenning (14:30)
How are you keeping

ANJALI MALIK, MD (14:30)
Absolutely.

Gabrielle Svenning (14:31)
up on all of this?

ANJALI MALIK, MD (14:33)
Yeah, I mean, it definitely is ⁓ commitment. And I'm already a physician and a mom and a wife and a human being in general. ⁓ so, yeah, so there are a lot of times where I just stick to my on the flys because that's what works for me. It reaches my followers and it's what got me where I am. But yes, when there are partnerships or if I'm posting

Gabrielle Svenning (14:39)
Yeah.

Karen (14:39)
Right.

Gabrielle Svenning (14:41)
A friend, yeah.

ANJALI MALIK, MD (14:55)
you know, on behalf of another ⁓ organization.

I'm a little bit more thoughtful about it. Not to say I'm not thoughtful, but I'm a little bit more intentional about, is my space clear and do I have better lighting and those kinds of things. And just that in and of itself takes a little bit longer. And then, yeah, if there's a editing process, what looks like a 60 second video could be an hour's worth of recording and emails.

Gabrielle Svenning (15:01)
Yeah.

Karen (15:23)
⁓ for

sure, we know that too, yeah. ⁓

ANJALI MALIK, MD (15:26)
Right. so,

Gabrielle Svenning (15:26)
Yeah.

ANJALI MALIK, MD (15:27)
and that can get a little frustrating because yeah,

mean, I definitely my September, October can be really intense because there are a lot of requests. The earlier they come, the better. I'm always happy. know it's people feel weird reaching out in July, but I'm like, no, that's great. That gives me like all this time, all this lead time. ⁓ Because yes, like I am one person and I am doing this myself. I'm not, you know, farming it out to anybody. so, so yeah, it definitely there is with partnerships, it definitely takes more time if you are

Gabrielle Svenning (15:41)
Yeah.

Karen (15:44)
Yeah.

Gabrielle Svenning (15:51)
Yeah.

ANJALI MALIK, MD (15:57)
you know, sort of owner of your own content, then it can be a lot less because you can be happy with execution. And then there are things too that can help.

Karen (16:03)
Right. Right.

ANJALI MALIK, MD (16:06)
with initial execution if off the cuff is not the goal. There are so many apps out there, whether it's like teleprompter apps or that I know that some of my friends use who make their own content, but because they have it little bit more formal and scripted, it works for them to do that. And I think that's great. I've used that stuff on behalf of other organizations before, and it certainly does make the one and done a lot more possible.

Gabrielle Svenning (16:10)
Yeah.

Yes.

Karen (16:33)
Yeah, and I'm probably going off script too, Gabrielle, this might also be a question later on, you know, because I think for our listeners who are involved in the marketing, they might be working with someone like you, but there's gonna be a lot more planning that goes in behind the scenes for themselves.

Gabrielle Svenning (16:36)
Yeah.

All

ANJALI MALIK, MD (16:49)
Okay.

Karen (16:51)
I think a lot of what you're saying, people can kind of extrapolate for themselves on level of planning is probably gonna be needed different types of posts We did talk with someone else too about working with influencers and stuff. you know, if a marketer came to you and said, Anjali, like, what do I even need to think about if I want to start considering doing?

ANJALI MALIK, MD (17:10)
Mm-hmm.

Karen (17:14)
social media posts on different platforms? there something in general that you would be able to pass on to them as like a little advice pieces, do you think? Yeah.

ANJALI MALIK, MD (17:22)
So yeah, I mean, you have to think about what your target audience is, what your message

is, ⁓ you know, and your mission. Because I think, like, for example, so I am an advisor for a health tech company, and I don't see how at this moment in time, it would work for them to be on an Instagram or a TikTok, right? Because like,

they're not reaching out to patients, but they are reaching out to practices, clinicians, other tech to say, this is how great our product is. Don't you want this? Right. So LinkedIn is absolutely where they should be. Maybe, X, you know, Twitter, whatever. If they wanted to show that they were key opinion leaders in the tech space or whatever. But, but TikTok and Instagram wouldn't make sense. Whereas I'm also a board member for

nonprofit that's supporting those with genetic mutations. And so they're on all of those. And I think it makes sense for them to be on all of those because they reach out to the community on an Instagram or a TikTok, but then they reach out to other sponsors, right? So a lot of their hospital or genetic testing companies or

Karen (18:20)
Yeah. Okay.

Right.

ANJALI MALIK, MD (18:36)
oncology companies or whatever are going to be on LinkedIn. And so it's important for them to be able to show the work that their organization is doing. And so, and that you can repurpose content for different needs, right? So it just depends on.

what it is and if you want to post the same content to all three, then there's tools that can do that too, the scheduling tools and the things that push out posts to different platforms. so again, it just really depends on what your mission and who your audience is.

Gabrielle Svenning (18:56)
Right.

Karen (19:04)
Yeah, that seems like those are really the key things to know very, very well before you even get into this. Where do you see the biggest gaps between what women need to understand about breast health, let's say, because that's your thing, and what actually appears in their feeds lately? Is there a difference?

Gabrielle Svenning (19:19)
Yeah.

ANJALI MALIK, MD (19:21)
You know, unfortunately, ⁓ real information gets suppressed and ⁓ viral, sort of, you know, the shocking or the, you know, things the doctors won't tell you type stuff. It just, gets pushed out into feeds. I mean, there's a post, I think it was originally on TikTok in early 25 and it was from,

Gabrielle Svenning (19:32)
Yeah.

ANJALI MALIK, MD (19:43)
I was from a chiropractor and I almost hesitate to say that because chiropractors have a role and they have training and they do things for a lot of people. Unfortunately, there are many who choose to step outside their lane and they often come after things like mammograms or they say that they can balance your hormone, things like that. And so there is a post from a chiropractor that was from January talking about how bad mammograms were and how doctors won't tell you this and this, that.

And went viral then, there were a lot of response videos at that point. And then someone picked it up recently on Instagram. And it's some huge, like, million, two million, you know, follower account that reposted this video and it's making the circles again. I mean, I had 10 people send it to me over the weekend. You know, and it's making the rounds again. And so of course we're all, like, making response videos again. And it's just, it's so frustrating

Gabrielle Svenning (20:25)
⁓

Karen (20:26)
Wow.

Gabrielle Svenning (20:32)
Yeah.

ANJALI MALIK, MD (20:36)
that kind of content.

Karen (20:38)
What is it about that stuff? Because I get that too. Like I'll see something regurgitate even over the course of let's say a calendar year, you'll see it and then it'll goes away and it comes back. I wonder what it is about that, is it just the shock and awe? Is it just that something that goes against the grain of kind of more mainstream medical information and so people wanna jump on it? It feeds a need that way? It was a conspiracy theory stuff. I'm just, you know.

ANJALI MALIK, MD (20:43)
Come Come on. Come on.

Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, I

think it does, right? And I think in this day and age of, you know, worrying about red dye number whatever, ⁓ over like things that we actually know cause problems. You know, I mean, I think we're in a very distrustful era right now.

Gabrielle Svenning (21:11)
Thank

ANJALI MALIK, MD (21:19)
you know, we used to trust the news and then people suggested it was fake news and then people suggested there should be alternatives to that. And then, you know, and now everybody, you know, has access to stick a phone in front of your face and provide whatever information you want. And, you know, we're not checking credentials or even if we were, right? I mean, we've had what, congressmen who made up credentials. So, I mean, we're in this place right now where

Karen (21:27)
Ha

Yeah, right.

Gabrielle Svenning (21:32)
Yeah.

ANJALI MALIK, MD (21:42)
there is a lot to question and that's without even bringing AI into the equation. I'm not talking about the AI I use that, you know, helps lives. I'm talking about the AI that can make up whatever and sound real and authentic. So we're definitely in an era where, you know, people might have always had a seed of mistrust, but now they've been fed information for decades now, right? I think, didn't Jenny McCarthy start the vaccine autism thing back in the, like,

Karen (21:45)
Yeah, right.

Gabrielle Svenning (21:48)
Yeah.

Karen (21:51)
Yeah.

I, she was, if she

Gabrielle Svenning (22:07)
Yeah. Yeah.

Karen (22:09)
didn't start it, she was early. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Gabrielle Svenning (22:11)
Yeah, she is.

ANJALI MALIK, MD (22:11)
Right. mean, right. She didn't start it exactly. like, I mean, I

think her thing started in like the late 90s or early 2000s. I that's when I think she was last relevant. So anyway, you know, so I mean, you have that and that.

Karen (22:17)
Yeah. Yeah.

Gabrielle Svenning (22:18)
Yeah.

ANJALI MALIK, MD (22:25)
Debate continues until now. mean, I don't know if it's a debate really, but that, you know, those accusations still circle now and same for mammograms. You know, there's thermography, there's all these things out there and it's so interesting because I saw a post from ⁓ someone who I think could truly be called a medical influencer just based on their size and their activity, but they ⁓ were saying that there was a post that very, very well

Gabrielle Svenning (22:29)
Right.

ANJALI MALIK, MD (22:50)
encapsulated the difference between a healthcare professional who's credentialed and someone who's like a naturopathic or a whatever, the post literally said you could consider this and you'll have more happiness, less liability. And that's exactly the point is that

we are liable, we report to medical boards, we can be reported to medical boards, like we have to be licensed, we have to be whatever. Whereas patients who get thermographies as an example, which is one of the purported but completely disproven alternatives, the bottom of the report will say, like, we're not liable, in so many words.

Karen (23:14)
Yeah.

ANJALI MALIK, MD (23:35)
and seek a healthcare professional for breast cancer screening. I I've seen a couple of reports where I'm like, I can't believe people are okay with this.

Gabrielle Svenning (23:37)
Well.

Karen (23:44)
Wow. Yeah. Yeah.

Gabrielle Svenning (23:46)
So,

well, that's a good, you know, so how do you, that must feel overwhelming as far as that mission to help combat misinformation because it's almost like a whack-a-mole, you know, and you can't, it's very hard to get ahead of it. How do you find, like, do you find yourself probably having these conversations one-to-one with your patients, but what do you find works best when countering misinformation? Is it to come back with short,

ANJALI MALIK, MD (23:57)
100%.

Gabrielle Svenning (24:13)
facts, credible, you know, this paper or is it have to do with the tone and the way you say it that makes you more, you know, acceptable? I'm just curious, like, is there one size that fits all? Is it just to come out as soon as it come, you know, as soon as, like, for instance, you saw this piece regurgitate?

ANJALI MALIK, MD (24:28)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Gabrielle Svenning (24:32)
Do you have something on hand that's like, throw in the paper that dispels this? Or is it more like, you know, what people need to hear is someone breaking it down conversationally, someone credible

ANJALI MALIK, MD (24:43)
I think you kind of have to do it all. It's like a multi-pronged approach. One of the biggest things that I hit home though is that I'm not selling anything.

Gabrielle Svenning (24:45)
Yeah.

ANJALI MALIK, MD (24:53)
when I say mammograms save lives, get your mammograms starting at 40, you're probably not going to come to my practice. And even if you did, it's not like the money goes directly into my pocket, right? If you go get a mammogram in Buffalo, New York, I don't benefit at all, other than knowing that you're, you know, hopefully living a healthier life. If you follow the advice, ⁓ you know, quack.

Karen (25:03)
All right. All right.

ANJALI MALIK, MD (25:15)
number one, who is also like, and by the way, so my, you know, here's my supplement. Here's my PCOS cure. Here's my, you know, whatever, hormone balance package. Here's my course. Here's my blah, blah. I mean, like if someone is selling you something and telling you not to do something that's proven, like I, to me that says it all. Right.

Gabrielle Svenning (25:19)
Yeah.

Karen (25:20)
All right.

Gabrielle Svenning (25:31)
Yeah.

ANJALI MALIK, MD (25:37)
So yeah, I've made so many posts over the years about that. Like look for the angle. What's their angle?

Gabrielle Svenning (25:44)
Yeah, right, you're saying I'm not,

yeah, I'm coming at this, I'm combating this information by putting out credible information that you know because I have no stake, that I'm not benefiting from this. And look at the person who is, that's what you're saying, like, know, critique the person who's giving this information. What do they have to benefit from it? Because then there's an underlying motive.

ANJALI MALIK, MD (25:53)
Yeah, I don't.

Right.

Yeah, so there's unfortunately someone who is credentialed, who has chosen to take an alternative approach and is the CEO of a company that is an alternative, unproven form of imaging. And it's like the perfect example. It's like, OK, great. So she has the credentials, but you're literally putting money in her pocket.

Gabrielle Svenning (26:22)
Got it.

Karen (26:24)
Yeah, right.

ANJALI MALIK, MD (26:25)
when you get

this imaging exam. you know, again, you still have to ask, like I'm not, don't own it, or if I do, I don't know, it's in some sort of like mutual fund, whatever, but like I don't own any stock in any thing that I'm not trying to sell you anything. I have no conflicts.

Gabrielle Svenning (26:26)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Like a, yeah.

Karen (26:41)
Right,

right, yeah.

ANJALI MALIK, MD (26:42)
conflicts of interest, right? Like, you know, I can go to any conference right now and very clearly say like, Mammograms save lives, I have no conflicts of interest, you know, I make no money from this. So if they can't say that, then you have to question.

Gabrielle Svenning (26:55)
Yeah.

Karen (26:56)
Right, and this is something that brands are gonna wanna be very, very careful about too when they are partnering with social media practitioner influencers as well when they think about how their own brand is gonna be represented how it's gonna be thought of down the line especially as we're talking about part of the responsibility of countering misinformation and building trust in your brand.

ANJALI MALIK, MD (27:05)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Karen (27:18)
What differences do you see between content that feels like genuinely educational from brands and content that comes across more as these promotions or sort of sales pitches and disguise kind of thing? there a litmus test other than thinking angle, unless that is the litmus test? Is there something else going on in these posts?

ANJALI MALIK, MD (27:39)
Yeah, I mean, I think

that health information is something that a lot of companies look for. So they'll look for people to provide copy or post to the company blog or, you those are the kinds of like requests that I've had like, oh, could you provide something for, our company blog talking about why we get mammograms every year and they're like,

way adjacent to mammograms or they're like in the women's health space and they just want to feature someone. And so I think that's fine because again, it's another platform. You know, if I catch one or two more people, that's great. I don't think it's, I don't think you have to, as the consumer, see it as harmful because again, they are just supporting evidence-based information and they're not.

you know, as long as they're not inserting their own and then you can get our, you know, add on, da, da, da, da, da, like, you know, then that's when it gets like a little,

You know, if a toothpaste company says dentists say you should brush your teeth twice a day, like, okay, but that's a fact. You know, and then if you choose to buy their toothpaste, that's great. You know, as long as they're not saying, and they say XYZ toothpaste is the best, like, you know,

Karen (28:36)
Yeah, right.

Right.

Yeah, using facts can also be a very powerful or useful tool for any brand to be putting out there without, you know, kind of hawking.

Gabrielle Svenning (28:56)
Curious if you, you as your brand online has increased in visibility, are you having more conversations with your peers about this? Are others, are your colleagues, not necessarily just in your office, but when you go and you speak and you are going to these meetings, you know, what advice could you give or do you give a healthcare provider who is interested in doing what you're doing?

⁓ but doesn't know where to start or, you know, what are some of the considerations? Because I know there's so many, you know, you've got your reputation, your brand, your credentials on the line, that is a lot to lose. So for people who are not at all, you know, familiar with how to navigate this world, but also see the need, I guess my question is two part. One, are you seeing, are people coming to you asking about how you do this? And two, what advice do you give?

ANJALI MALIK, MD (29:32)
Yeah.

Yeah, so I actually, I do have people ask or I'm part of organizations that help others start. So I recently was at a ⁓ conference where the entire purpose was to help people build their brand online to fight medical misinformation. And of course, the biggest thing is just start, just start posting. just getting over that, know, hum. ⁓

Gabrielle Svenning (30:11)
Yeah, that hump, yeah.

ANJALI MALIK, MD (30:13)
is

part of it. But some of the considerations to your point, decide what your appetite for

like how thick your skin is. ⁓ For me, it's, and for most of us that were there, this was an all female conference, was delete. Delete negative comments, don't engage, block. Delete and block is like a pretty, because we just don't have time. We're here to provide information, provide a positive space, and we're not going to bicker online with people who don't want to. If people just say, I don't do that, I say your body, your choice, period. If they come back with more, I'm like, we're not doing this. You're not here for information. You're here to

Gabrielle Svenning (30:24)
Hmm, interesting, yeah.

Karen (30:32)
Yeah.

Gabrielle Svenning (30:36)
Thanks.

Yeah.

ANJALI MALIK, MD (30:51)
detract from the information I'm trying to provide. But you do have to decide how thick your skin is. And then I think another thing is, yeah, you need to decide what your threshold is for your practice. So it's not common, but there are people who get doxed from their online presence. They are obviously posting about a lot more controversial things now.

Gabrielle Svenning (31:04)
So.

ANJALI MALIK, MD (31:11)
And not that that's wrong, but it might be, whether it's talking about reproductive rights or ⁓ things that unfortunately have a lot of controversy surrounding them. I mean, know someone who got doxed from talking about circumcision because there are people who are very against it. so you just have to, and of course, all my pediatric friends with vaccines, I've had several docs, and that is.

Gabrielle Svenning (31:13)
Right,

Yeah.

Karen (31:17)
Right,

right.

Yeah.

Gabrielle Svenning (31:28)
Oof.

Karen (31:35)
Yeah.

ANJALI MALIK, MD (31:39)
a very scary situation so you just have to decide what your appetite is for that. What support do you have? So for example, if you're at a hospital, is your hospital okay with you doing this or are you saying like, not, views are my own, da da da da. Make sure you're taking the sort of those like medical, legal, ethical type steps to protect yourself and your organization.

Gabrielle Svenning (31:54)
Yeah.

ANJALI MALIK, MD (32:03)
And yeah, decide what your mission is, because it can be multi-fold. Just because we're physicians doesn't mean we always take the medical approach. have, for example, friends online who have taken the more like humanism of medicine approach or the how to support trainees approach or the...

you know, just different approaches, like how do you get into medicine? How do you get into residency, whatever. So whatever your, right, whatever your mission and angle are, just, you know, decide that. It doesn't have to stay that, but at least have a clear focus. yeah, just post.

Gabrielle Svenning (32:28)
Got it, right. Yeah, their angle, yeah.

Karen (32:29)
Mmm.

Gabrielle Svenning (32:41)
Yeah, just

ANJALI MALIK, MD (32:43)
my

most viral post on TikTok, I'm not joking, I filmed it the morning after a foot surgery. I was sitting around on the couch and like, there's my phone and I was like, and I just green screened a mammogram and talked about the mammogram. And I think today it got like 10 likes and two comments, you know, and I posted that three years ago. And so just post.

Gabrielle Svenning (32:51)
Yeah. Yep.

Karen (33:06)
Yeah, people are hungry for the good stuff, I think, on their, you know, so as a follow-up to this, then flipping it a little bit, what do you think makes a strong and successful partnership between like a brand, femtech brand, and a clinician like yourself? And what tends to get in the way? what's, you've worked as a partner with people, so you have the experience to be able to draw on, like, what do they do, what's helpful, and what tends to get in the way, especially on sensitive topics?

ANJALI MALIK, MD (33:32)
Yeah, I I think it always has to be from the perspective of evidence-based medicine. ⁓ And, you we don't want to feel like we're pushing or hawking a product. Or if we do, then that needs to be, you know, if that is the intention, then that needs to be clear as well. I think one thing that I have found, you know, like more annoying wasn't in the tech space, but in a partnership where

Karen (33:37)
Yeah.

ANJALI MALIK, MD (33:55)
I think I told you guys about this, but it's like, they like my content for this feel, but then they give me like very rigid parameters. And it's like, I don't, I actually do not excel with rigid parameters because that's, you know, I'm not like giving some like PowerPoint presentation my phone. You know, so I think.

Karen (34:02)
Yeah, we've heard this. Yeah.

Gabrielle Svenning (34:03)
Yeah, we've heard this.

Karen (34:12)
Hahaha!

you

Gabrielle Svenning (34:17)
heard about that too. It's like on one hand, brands want to partner with certain people because they have such great following, their posts go viral, know, lots of back engagement. then that...

Karen (34:28)
And they love their

style. Yeah.

Gabrielle Svenning (34:30)
And they love their style, exactly. But then they come

ANJALI MALIK, MD (34:30)
Right.

Gabrielle Svenning (34:32)
back with a very rigid brief and really dictating how things should be that strip away that style. And when things don't perform as well, there's like, well, why didn't that work? And the influencer were saying, hey, well, that's not my style. That's not why people come to me. Yeah.

ANJALI MALIK, MD (34:34)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Right.

And it's interesting because I recently did a partnership where I had sort of that experience. But then on the flip side, I had a partnership that was like very, very open-ended, just like, we want you to do this, post it this week, send us the link. And it did really well. And it literally took me two minutes to film because I like aligned with the mission. was, you know,

Karen (35:12)
Yeah.

ANJALI MALIK, MD (35:13)
very relevant to my background and I just like I sat and I talked about it and I filmed it and I put it up and I had the caption and like usually when you have like hashtag ad hashtag sponsored or paid partnership or whatever those those posts just in general don't perform as well and I'm pretty sure that the algorithm suppresses them or whatever but it did really well and I think it's just because it was authentic and you know and people were like she's talking to her phone again

Gabrielle Svenning (35:28)
Yeah.

Karen (35:35)
Right. Yeah.

Gabrielle Svenning (35:38)
Yeah.

Karen (35:39)
Right, so

I mean we talk about authenticity a lot, but this is exactly what we mean by that. So making sure that the person you're partnering with is a reflection of what you want, the voice that you feel is appropriate for your brand so that you're not trying to over direct this voice. And yeah, that's good.

ANJALI MALIK, MD (35:54)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Gabrielle Svenning (35:59)
Are you, Anjali, are you, you know, we just talked about receiving a brief and working with brands and how those partnerships may end up, or you don't get a brief and they tell you just to, you do your thing. How often are you finding yourself in a position, can you advise them on like, are they usually, do they already come to you and say, we wanna be on TikTok? Or do you ever get...

ANJALI MALIK, MD (36:10)
Mm-hmm.

Gabrielle Svenning (36:23)
content or you know a request from someone where then you come back because I know you're you are an advisor It have a you know, it seems like that they probably could really benefit because it is so Overwhelming for someone who is not in this world I guess my question is how do you be even begin to advise them and you may have touched upon this earlier. Where do you even begin as? You know a brand deciding where you're gonna put your investment

How do you advise them?

ANJALI MALIK, MD (36:50)
Yeah, so I haven't had to necessarily advise from that standpoint. So I've either worked with the team's PR. I have offered content ideas to people who have existing platforms, said like, we, you know, so for example, the nonprofit that I'm a part of.

because I am a physician, I'm obviously going to be like, and have we talked about this? And I talk to my patients about this and this and this and this. And they're like, we haven't thought about those things. So I brought that in. Or even from like a sponsorship angle, I was like, hey, women who go through this end up going through this. Have we brought those companies on board? So I actually ended up bringing some new sponsorships in from companies that I had worked with through social media. So that was sort of like a whole web of interconnectivity.

⁓ that I thought was kind of cool to be able to create those connections. So yeah, I'm mostly either, I would say I'm more about providing the content or redirecting the content than creating the platforms themselves.

Gabrielle Svenning (37:36)
Yeah.

you know, now just sort of looking ahead, what sort of digital behaviors, whether, you know, is it patient-driven, clinician-driven, creator-driven, where do you see the future of women's health communication going?

ANJALI MALIK, MD (38:03)
Yeah, mean, such a good question. And I really think it's got to be everyone meeting, ⁓ you know, in the digital space. I think that patients are always going to drive the conversation because they have the questions. ⁓ And so they are going to be the one, you know, they have the questions and they have the needs, right? And so the market addresses them either medically or.

Gabrielle Svenning (38:16)
Yeah.

ANJALI MALIK, MD (38:25)
with misinformation. And so I think you just have to see where patients are and take the information in that direction.

Gabrielle Svenning (38:32)
Yeah, just my own observations and I'm relatively new to TikTok, for instance, but

I think there's so much more now emphasis on people like it's an acceptance that people share things that were private before. We're not conversations that now we're having in our phones to masses of anonymous people. But we know our voice is getting out there. We want to have these conversations. So I think, hi.

ANJALI MALIK, MD (38:48)
Yeah.

I know, I know, I know.

Karen (38:59)
Okay.

ANJALI MALIK, MD (39:02)
It was like not that much longer. No, he doesn't care about me. He just wants to be where I am. Yeah. ⁓

Gabrielle Svenning (39:03)
We're almost done. We're gonna let your mom go. I promise and just to

Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, that makes sense.

so back to where do we see the trends going? I think that in women's health at least we can expect to see a lot more kind of people like us that don't have any credentials, sorry, not like you, like me and Karen who don't have credentials, who don't have anything but are comfortable talking about this and feel the need. I know that I get really hot under the collar and passionate about HRT. I for instance,

could possibly get hot under the collar because of her generation didn't have HRT and more and more people are coming out and just venting, talking, sharing. And it feels like the healthcare provider community needs...

ANJALI MALIK, MD (39:41)
going to die.

Karen (39:43)
Yep. Yeah.

Gabrielle Svenning (39:48)
is going to have to find a way to get more comfortable with this because their voices just need to be there like because otherwise their other voices don't don't worry yeah we can we can you know what our listeners don't care either we're all we're all family you know we're all we all got family so anyway ⁓

Karen (39:57)
Don't worry.

ANJALI MALIK, MD (40:07)
think it's important that people be able to have conversations. I do think, again, I think it is what has driven so many...

of the conversations and so much of the progress forward, right? Like if we don't know the questions that people have, then how can we share the information? If we don't know the concerns that people have, again, how can we address them? And so I think even just the, like the we do not care club, what is it that we do not care like for people in menopause and people being able to...

Karen (40:17)
Yeah.

Gabrielle Svenning (40:33)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, we do not care yet.

Karen (40:33)
Yeah.

ANJALI MALIK, MD (40:37)
just help women's health and just women's sanity, you know, evolve, right? Like we're taking so many stigmas and just ripping the bandaid off and ripping them wide open and talking about them. And I think that it really does help in many ways. It's just important to kind of, like you said, remember that some of these are just anecdotal and, you know, and not evidence based. But I mean, support groups and things like that have existed all along, right? that is where you're having the anecdotal

Gabrielle Svenning (40:41)
Yeah.

Karen (40:59)
Yeah. Yeah.

ANJALI MALIK, MD (41:08)
that can help people get through an experience or an illness or so it's definitely relevant and it's impactful it's just not necessarily evidence-based.

Karen (41:19)
as you were talking about that, as you were describing it, I was like, absolutely true. But, it is a community builder. and it's a great place for people who are experiencing something to share their experiences with one another as long as I think it's very clear that, as you said, it's anecdotal. This is my experience. You know, your mileage may vary.

ANJALI MALIK, MD (41:26)
Mm-hmm.

Right.

Karen (41:40)
⁓ But it kind of opens up a conversation, which is also something that's a useful role for social media, obviously.

Gabrielle Svenning (41:40)
Yeah.

ANJALI MALIK, MD (41:40)
Great.

And it's

not even just limited to medicine. Sometimes you look at how did so-and-so become viral? How did this, and what are their credentials? because used to it was like celebrity chef has this platform or celebrity, whatever, right? And so.

Karen (41:55)
Yeah.

Right.

ANJALI MALIK, MD (42:07)
Tabitha Brown is one, for example, in the plant-based community. She literally was an Uber driver or like a ride share, whatever app she was on. And she stopped at Whole Foods and got something that was vegan and posted about it on TikTok. And for whatever reason, it went viral. And from that, she started making content. She's not a chef. She has no background in culinary science to my knowledge. Right. But she created a community where people could talk about their favorite

Gabrielle Svenning (42:30)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

ANJALI MALIK, MD (42:37)
vegan foods or favorite plant-based foods. And now she has like lines and cookbooks and you know products and stuff like that and that's great.

Karen (42:39)
Right.

ANJALI MALIK, MD (42:47)
you know, that's fantastic. She doesn't have to be a chef. She cooks who the people like, you know, she's probably recipe tested in her own home now. You know, her knife skills might not be on point. And that might be something that a chef would be like, her knife skills are terrible. And she's not doing something to like USDA, like health safety standards. And then that would be relevant, right? Like if she's doing something that's dangerous or if she's doing something. So you have to think about it from that perspective that people who might build these platforms because they created that community

Karen (42:50)
Right. Right. Right.

Hahaha

Yeah.

ANJALI MALIK, MD (43:17)
still might not have the credential. So it doesn't mean that they don't have that safe space, but just make sure they're not overstepping.

Karen (43:19)
Shhh!

and promoting misinformation. mean, think it's, you know, it is a more murky ground for a brand to think about, but there is a place for people to be able to talk about something. You could start it, you know, as the brand and kind of have a little more, you know, there's a middle ground between completely freewheeling and maybe having a little bit of ownership over what stays in the comments section or something, you know, so.

ANJALI MALIK, MD (43:32)
Right.

Yeah, and you know, another

thing you talked about like content and things, I've had companies reach out to me who just want SEO. so whether it's an article and, you know, somehow the company's name comes up or it's a...

Karen (43:56)
Yeah.

ANJALI MALIK, MD (44:04)
a blog post or whatever, right? Like they literally just want the SEO and they know that you can offer it if you are someone who has a presence. And that's okay too. Again, if you're just, know, if the mission aligns, it's okay. You you want to get your name out there and even if you're just talking about, you know, the product, like this is a product that does XYZ.

Gabrielle Svenning (44:10)
Yeah.

ANJALI MALIK, MD (44:23)
It's okay. You just have to the goal is and then find someone with whom that mission aligns.

Karen (44:28)
Right.

Gabrielle Svenning (44:29)
Well, Anjali, thank you so much for helping us see social media, you know, not necessarily as the minefield that I think it's known as, but rather as a place where, you know, credible voices can join and be there and genuinely change how women understand and talk about their health and their bodies. So this has been very, very helpful. I thank you very much.

Karen (44:32)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Your personality, your candor is exactly what the space needs. And a reminder that clinicians can really be part of the conversation shaping the space. Thanks, really. bye. Bye.

ANJALI MALIK, MD (44:55)
Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely happy to do it. don't think X will wait one more

Gabrielle Svenning (45:04)
care.